A Possible Future for Nightcore

[DJ Shaunathan]

Ok, I admit, I've been here about two seconds compared to the age of the forum, but I wanted to share and start a conversation about where Nightcore should go. The basics were covered in the main thread that tries to define exactly what Nightcore is. Pitched up electronic Dance Music with a positive hard core vibe. A fitting definition, but where some may see a finished thought, I see a launch pad. My cousin told me that "Nightcore is Happy Hardcore's younger, cuter, sister who's into anime and didn't forget how to have fun." Seems fitting to me. After talking with some people on here, I know a few of us agree that there's room for new and fresh Nightcore music.

This is about half a year old, but this article makes a case for a revival of Happy Hardcore. It talks about some of the negative connotations Happy Hardcore picked up in the UK over the years. It also clearly seems to say that there's people out there who still want the escapism, the fun, and the good times associated with this type of music.

ARTICLE: http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/in-prais ... y-hardcore

Well let's look at nightcore, what do we offer?

• Hi Pitched fast dance beats.
• A beautiful Anime Aesthetic.
• Gamer Culture.

We have no drug culture, in fact, the only negative stigma I can think of is that some on youtube say "you just sped this up". Honestly, if that's the worst they can say we are exactly what the doctor ordered.

What do you think? Could Nightcore fill the void in hard dance? Is the audience larger than it realizes?

[Raver]

"Nightcore is Happy Hardcore's younger, cuter, sister who's into anime and didn't forget how to have fun."

Lol, cool description.

Man, you're just as members as we are, don't worry about being new and believe me, you're a way better than some new members..

This post together with the article gave me goosebumps. :)

To be honest I don't think Nightcore should/will get bigger than just an internet meme.

I understand that article and it actually makes me feel nostalgic even though I wasn't even alive in the Happy Hardcore age. The song they mentioned is just beautiful, wonderful. I don't know how that can be compared with Nightcore. Hands up (modern dance(?)) doesn't have the same feeling than this kind of song. I respect Nightcore and I know how catchy it may be, as well as I understand how Happy Hardcore was so damn good and the rave community miss it, but I still there's a big cap between them. Rescuing the old feeling is a legit goal, however I don't see how it can be substituted by Nightcore.

Also, most Nightcore songs sound more like UK Hardcore (Hixxy and Styles as they mentioned) than HH (Force and Styles) I think.
Hands Up > +25% speed > Nightcore (UK Hardcore)
"Old dance"/Eurodance > +25% speed > Nightcore (HH)

[DJ Shaunathan]

Well then, from one raver to another, the good vibe has been transferred. Time to pass it on!

I read the article and had the same experience actually. (oh god third track on that link is shooting star brb gotta dance... They faded it out?! noooooooo....)

Ok I'm back!

Maybe it's because I'm from LA, but out here we always were inclusive with Happy Hardcore: We heard the HH, we heard the UK Hardcore, Dutchcore, gabber, we heard the hard dance that came out of Japan, Jump up Jungle, Breakbeat, Trance, even some of our home grown LA house and threw it all in a blender and sped it up. When we'd hear the Drum and Bass breaks come out of UK HH tracks it felt like validation that we were on the right track. Heck when my mentor who taught me how to mix gave me my final test, he had me grab a trance record, a jungle record, two house records, a Happy Hardcore record, and a scratch battle record and told me to give him 3 tracks of Happy Hardcore.

So Nightcore, as you describe it above, just all feels right, the same, and an equal to HH. Like sisters! The fact that Nightcore even exists feels like Validation for Hardcore. After all this time, we get a new flavor to emerge? Between night core and the Aussies keeping hardcore alive and well, I think the rumors of HH's demise are greatly mistaken.

So don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to jump ship. I'm just trying to get a fleet together.

[Zurd]

"Nightcore is Happy Hardcore's younger, cuter, sister who's into anime and didn't forget how to have fun."

Lol, cool description.

gawd I have to write this description somewhere, hope you don't mind if I use it elsewhere, it's fitting the genre so perfectly well :-)

The article was quite a fun read, not new though, it was posted in 2013, was written a bit to the extreme but still well written

[DJ Shaunathan]

Well perhaps "didn't forget how to have fun" is a bit harsh to HH.

But yes! Feel free to use it!

[Zurd]

I don't feel like it's harsh, the new HH is not like what it was before, it should be call HHH for Hard Happy Hardcore, take a look at the latest at http://www.happyhardcore.com/radio while it's still a great music, it doesn't feel "happy" and "sweet" and "funnier" like the classic HH back then

[DJ Shaunathan]

True. But honestly, it's been that way ever since the "John Peel is not enough" radio special that Hixxy and Sharkey did. So some of the originators are to blame for it's current state, although this new sound is mostly Australian. that being said, I'll take hardcore over terrorcore any day.

[Warsie]

I don't feel like it's harsh, the new HH is not like what it was before, it should be call HHH for Hard Happy Hardcore, take a look at the latest at http://www.happyhardcore.com/radio while it's still a great music, it doesn't feel "happy" and "sweet" and "funnier" like the classic HH back then

Kind've liek S3rl's stuff. Well the stuff he works on which ISNT 'old school' happy hardcore.

[Raver]

Kind've liek S3rl's stuff. Well the stuff he works on which ISNT 'old school' happy hardcore.

I think it's more like UK Hardcore:

Happy Hardcore > fast tempo, bouncy beats and neat bass, lyrics about happy things/good times mostly
UK Hardcore > fast tempo, hard beat and bass, lyrics about almost everything (like MTC for example)

Of course it's my opinion, I'm not an expert.

[DJ Shaunathan]

Kind've liek S3rl's stuff. Well the stuff he works on which ISNT 'old school' happy hardcore.

Well, it's complicated.
S3rl is an Australian Hardcore DJ. A lot of them, like Weaver and S3rl, were trained by Hixxy, Sharkey, and Scott Brown, all three helped define UK Hardcore. This is why a lot of Aussie DJ's sound like UK Hardcore, and why they appear on UK Compilations like bonkers. When the hardcore scene started to get a lot of negative press in the UK, the Producers just moved down south a bit. Australia is where this harder and less happy hardcore really was forged and flourishes. That being said, I think Those of us who listen to hard dance, particularly in North America and Japan, China, & Korea, still prefer the happy stuff. Those who don't mostly listen to Hard House and Hardstyle I've noticed.

[Kylor]

I recently posted a thread about improving nightcore music, and I was slightly surprised at the reaction I got. the simple fact that I gathered is that most people don't want nightcore to change, but will accept spinoffs. as discussed in my thread here-
http://nightcoreuniverse.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5084
If you would like we could discuss spinoff titles (such as the popular spinoff, nightstep) and attempt copy this genre onto a new canvas of song editing, a canvas that allows for constant improvement and changes.

[epicolizard]

How about Nightrock.

[Kylor]

How about Nightrock.

I like nightrock, but that confines it to one genre (though the point would be to make any song, even non-rock, to have more of a rock-ish vibe)
One I had come up with was darkcore (perhaps duskcore would roll off the tonged better)
I like to brainstorm and discuss such topics, please don't think I was trying to shoot you down because I do think nightrock could be a good spinoff title

[epicolizard]

Maybe we could make our own forums for Darkcore

[epicolizard]

Maybe we could make our own forums for Darkcore

jk

[Kylor]

why not then? I could set up a quick, free site that could explain the misconception and describe our new subgenre, wouldn't take more than an hour, we could ask people from this site to help out, im sure some of them would be happy to clear everything up.

[epicolizard]

eh sure why not we can both be admins

[Kylor]

cool I will try to set it up either tomorrow or Monday, afterwards I will make a thread here, and of course, try to find you. goodbye until then! =D

[epicolizard]

bye

[Kylor]

darkcore.freeforums.org

after you join be sure to message me or something so I can admin you.

[MagicScream]

When I listen to certain nightcore songs, they do somewhat resemble the happy hardcore that was played during the 1990s. I've seen people here and on Youtube who are in their 20s and 30s and I'm guessing they got into nightcore because it reminds them of these 90's rhythms. (Correct me if I'm wrong on this.) I don't think nightcore will become the modern equivalent of 90's happy hardcore, but I still think it would be nice if it got some exposure outside of the internet.

[emilemil1]

I'm in my 20s and Happy Hardcore is not a reason why I got interested. I've never been a huge fan of the genre, and I had practically zero exposure to it when I grew up as it never got popular around where I live. It was its similarity to Eurodance that reeled me in, a genre that was enormously popular over here (for a short while), and one I loved the overall sound of. Though I never quite got into it because I found it lacking just a bit in energy, a missing piece that Nightcore handily filled in with its higher tempo.

The problem with getting it out of the internet and into clubs/etc is that nowadays, to a lot of people, speeding up a song is considered a pretty bad act in one way or another. If you speed it up and still tribute it to the original artist, you have basically insulted them by messing up their perfect work. If you speed it up and tribute it to yourself, like a remix, you're insulting them by stealing their perfect work with a lazy edit.

This was never really the case back in the days of vinyl when even the artists themselves often played their own tracks at different speeds. Today the entire mindset has changed. Speeding up used to be a feature of your player, an increase in the vinyl RPM, while today it's done through an edit of the digital waveform. I believe that in the same way, people's mindsets have changed from accepting it as a different way of playing back the same track, into condemning it as a permanent corruption of the original song.

[Scandinasia]

I got into nightcore because it reminded me of the 90's and the beginning of the 2000's, but not from a musical point of view, since I didn't listen to that kind of music when I was a child (I'm 22). The oldschool vibe just reminded me of another time that I liked. But when I got into nightcore, I didn't know the existence of Happy Hardcore or related genres.

[Raver]

Okay guys, even though it's a cool discussion about how you got into Nightcore it's not topic-related. We even have a thread about that.. http://nightcoreuniverse.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1143

[emilemil1]

What do you think? Could Nightcore fill the void in hard dance? Is the audience larger than it realizes?

My second and third paragraph were directed to the question asked by the OP. First paragraph answered the question (or rather the request for correction) asked for in the post above.

[rsslayersr]

There is still one barrier that Nightcore has to get around to gather more exposure to the external world: the niche part that is the anime community. To my knowledge, it still seems like it's frowned upon. Everything with big eyes, styalized 'cute' faces, some bare skin and a strong colorful pallet, is something to stay away from.

It seems to have already taken up a place in the gaming community, if I can believe I all the comments I read. With some people I talk to frequently, it would be considered 'chipmunk anime shit' before they were done with the first minute.

[3nvade]

the only future it might have is that it becomes a genre in of itself
it will have to be say 162 bpm and up and it should have its custom sounds like it could mix hands up hardcore and acid or something
the problom is that most people who do nightcore dont even know what a daw is.

[Tranceformer]

The biggest Problem on Nightcore is the Fake-Nightcore.
If you google Nightcore there you can find very much junk, but the real good Nightcore is only after all that.
I know it by myself: I listen to Nightcore since 4 years: but there were much interruptions in this time 'cause there was too much Junkcore i found. So I were Bored through that.
I listen to Nightcore active about half a year since i found DI-Nightcore.
At this time i started informing me about that music genre.
And now I listen very much too the Real-Nightcore and I'm not bored anyway.
This all Fake-Nightcore-shit still destroys the image of Nightcore more and more and thats a pity. :(

[emilemil1]

It's a matter of definition that needs to be addressed, but it's not going to happen by itself, at least not in the direction NU would like. Fake Nightcore has the enormous advantage of being intuitive and easy to grasp, it doesn't require a history lesson to grasp the concept of, so it's what people will naturally lean towards.

Unfortunately I see fake Nightcore having a brighter future than real.

[Fernandez]

I too think it would be nice if nightcore was more well-known, but I see two big obstacles, both of which have been touched on in previous posts.

The first obstacle is the definition. While this forum has the definition of nightcore nailed down to a T, the majority of people outside of this forum see nightcore as a speed up of any song. That's way too broad of a definition for a genre. However, if people were willing to accept what nightcore really is, then it could have a chance, but unfortunately, I don't see that happening.

The second obstacle is the fact that it's associated with anime. While it's true that anime has gained a significant presence in the USA and Europe, when you look at the grand scheme of things, anime is still not that popular. In my experience at least, it seems like many Westerners still see anime as weird and out of the ordinary.

[W0und]

Yesterday I've joined some nightcore group on Facebook (500+ members), and all I see is fake nightcore, some pop crap going on at nowadays nightcore scene.

[Watch4FallingRock]

I never thought that nightcore's anime aesthetic would be a hinderance to it's future, but rsslayersr and Fernandez have quite valid points. It's worth mentioning that the original Nightcore group didn't associate their music with anime culture.

[Scandinasia]

Yesterday I've joined some nightcore group on Facebook (500+ members), and all I see is fake nightcore, some pop crap going on at nowadays nightcore scene.

That reminds me of a problem we have in the Goa Trance scene.

Goa Trance is a clearly defined sub-genre of Trance music that evolved into other sub-genres without ceasing to exist itself. However, in the Trance scene, there are plenty of people (most of them), that use the term "Goa Trance" to qualify every sub-genre of psychedelic trance, and on the internet, most of the song that are labelled "Goa Trance" has pretty much nothing to do with actual Goa Trance.

Then, we have a large trance scene where a lot of people corrupt the word and idea of Goa Trance, and a tiny core of people that fight to preserve the sense of this word in order to make real Goa Trance exists. (You can easily draw a parallel with the Nightcore scene, where the word nightcore is as much misused).
This corruption of the the words (Nightcore, Goa Trance) is dangerous because it mixes the real stuff with the not-related-to-the-actual-genre stuff, which tends to erase the original scene. It is bad for promotion, because it creates misunderstandings, and then it is much harder to promote our scene to a larger audience.

Indeed, in many genres, when you promote a genre, you just need to explain it. But we have, before to do so, to clear away the misunderstandings and tell people first : no, this is not nightcore.

Fortunately, in the field of Goa Trance, we have a secret name for the genre : 604. I use the terminology "Goa 604" to clear away any possible misunderstandings, and it seems to be an efficient solution.

The nightcore scene shall deal with that problem of terminology that threatens the genre. It has to recall the audience that nightcore is a sped up version of vocal Fantasy songs. In a few words, people understand that the beat, the rave aspect is important.

A proper thinking is IMO required.

[emilemil1]

Problem is that the more words you tack on to describe something, the more underground it gets, and people in general always follow the path of least resistance, the simplest approach. You can see this in every popular genre nowadays, as practically none of them are described by more than one word (when referring to the genre), even though several words may be needed to correctly describe the sound.

Adding another word to the name of Nightcore to keep it pure may reduce confusion among those using the terminology, but it will make it more difficult to approach by "outsiders", and it has the huge problem of essentially making it a subgenre of fake Nightcore both by name and by sound. Why is it such a problem? Because as I mentioned above, the general public likes to distill several words down to a single one for simplicity, so just as something like Progressive House is often referred to as just House, XXX Nightcore will be referred to as just Nightcore, once again creating the same cycle of confusion.

[Scandinasia]

I agree with you, for one reason : nightcore is nightcore. Changing the name would be the contrary of a solution. You can't split up the real nightcore from the false nightcore by renaming it.

Actually, when I say I use the secret name of Goa (604), I'm pretty much alone to do it, and even myself I use it not so often, since Goa Trance is Goa Trance.

The problem with a corrupted name is that it prevents the core community to make efficient promotion to a large scale. However, our Goa community is taking back its name and attributes, and restoring the true meaning of Goa Trance. How is that ? (Let's continue with the parallel). First, there were people that gathered to form a strong, coherent and very willing community. This community produces music, and claimed high to be Goa, the "real" Goa. A strong community with a strong identity, promoting and defining strictly the genre, had some effects.

Secondly, this community released high quality Goa products, and created high quality labels.

Third, lobbying. Our community, though tiny (but it's finally getting larger), owns the main psytrance we forum on the internet. On reddit, the moderators of several trance and psytrance communities belong to this Goa lobby.

Four : I think that this point is the most important ; there is a web portal releasing free Trance music (Ektoplazm http://www.ektoplazm.com/). This portal gathers all the psytrance communities. Musical releases are divided into categories. Every release is tagged accordingly to the category(ies) that defines it the most.
On this portal, one of the category is Goa. http://www.ektoplazm.com/style/goa It was created with the website, and a few Goa labels use it.
The fact that Goa has its own category is pedagogic : it makes people think that it is not any subgenre, that it has its own sounds, its own rules, that you can't make music and call it Goa unless you respect thoses rules. I think that this site has served a lot our purpose, and that it helped people to understand what Goa was, though a lot of people still make misunderstandings (plus, there are cultural issues : in Switzerland, people call psytrance "Goa Trance" ; in Belgium, Goa Trance is called "oldschool", even if there are new sounds, hence the importance for our community to claim that name).

What is important here is that we are able to recover, after many years, thanks to a kind of academic purpose.

For instance, there are countries that create academies to control the words of their main language. In France, there is an Academy that writes the dictionnary that is available for all the French speakers of the world. Goa community focused on only one word, the most important of them : Goa.


Then, why am I writing all this. Nightcore is an underground music whose name have been corrupted. It is an oldshcool music whose "core" community is either tiny or disorganized. Plus, the actual context seems to threaten nightcore music and concept (less and less Fantasy being produced).

First, to make nightcore thrive, the community shall gather and organize. The people that know the true feeling of nightcore can create links, stronger links, and would be more efficient in the organization of the scene (better promotion, census of main nightcore sources, writing of articles, reviews, etc.)

But my main point is : Nightcore is part of Fantasy. When promoted, it shall always be accompanied by references to Fantasy music. When Fantasy is promoted, a good think would be to mention nightcore. They are linked, but people don't understand. I think that nightcore promotion shall be thought together with Fantasy promotion.

Example : If I have million dollars ( lol ), I create a web portal dedicated to Fantasy music. It gathers the community (for now, the community is essentially spread through youtube channels, but i'm not sure that the common followers communicate between each others. Mikael's channel is one of the biggest. We are on its forum. We are few.), and it offers music, divided into categories. Nightcore is one of the categories (plus, there is a definition, and only true nightcore is released). Let's pretend that thousands of people know the site. I think that the internet would change its mind a little bit on nightcore.

Anyway : TL;DR >>>>> what about a "nightcore academy" + always promote nightcore alongside with Fantasy

EDIT : by the way emil, i love you for this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y10Z81 ... L&index=70

[MagicScream]

Fortunately, in the field of Goa Trance, we have a secret name for the genre : 604. I use the terminology "Goa 604" to clear away any possible misunderstandings, and it seems to be an efficient solution.

I can even draw a parallel with that type of naming in the nightcore scene too. I remember a few people using the name "Nightcore II" to refer to real nightcore, and I gotta agree with how you said that changing the name won't solve anything. With people misusing music style names nowadays, throwing in more words into the fray would only add to the confusion.

Anyway : TL;DR >>>>> what about a "nightcore academy" + always promote nightcore alongside with Fantasy

I checked out that Ektoplazm site, and I liked how the atmosphere has the feel of a classroom or a museum. The homepage is the lobby, and the styles are like the lessons or exhibits.

I can see a similar website, where nightcore would be one of the categories. I think such a website would be better for teaching people about nightcore, since the purpose of a forum is more to casually just talk about nightcore. Talking about and teaching are two different things.

But if such an idea were to be implemented, one major problem would be getting people to visit the website. It would do no good if the website was set up, but no one bothered to visit it.

[emilemil1]

I believe that the majority don't look up definitions or information relating to Nightcore, they just see songs that are sped up and makes the assumption that that's the entire definition. Then they tell their friends, show them videos, spread their "knowledge", and well yeah... that's how I think it goes.

The only way for this information to stick to people is to put it right in front of their faces, so they're forced to look at it before they make any assumptions, or in other words in the form of a big fat clear link at the top of every single Nightcore video out there.

But that's never going to happen for countless reasons.