Progession
About
Nightcore as music style 90%
Nightcore as artist ?%
Origin
Original nightcore songs and oldest to be found 10%
History
Maybe a Dam Dadi Doo sub meme? Consider so many Dam Dadi Doo AMV/MV
How Limewire helped nightcore revive 100%
Better article organization 30%
Golden Age 5%
AMV/MV for each year 10%
Greatest hits for each year 0%
Little history of Maikel's channel 5%
osu 0%
news
Since I have the idea to make a wiki page (can't due to Notability), I struggle in my heart what is the definition of Nightcore song.
Prescriptively, a Nightcore song has to be a techno/trance/dance song as the original artist does.
Descriptively, a Nightcore song is a song sped-up and pitched-up.
As the only editor so far, what do you veteran nightcorer think about the definition of Nightcore song? And other stuff I wrote on it?
Welcome to Nightcore Universe! Enjoy your stay as much as you enjoy the original Nightcore songs!
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Raver wrote:This thread is for use on Nightcore Universe ONLY and should be applied to Nightcore Universe ONLY. IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED IN BEING A MEMBER OF NIGHTCORE UNIVERSE, THIS THREAD DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU. None of us condone the use of these posting regulations to annoy, troll, flame, or attempt to dictate videos/uploaders on YouTube -- we kindly ask that you DO NOT use it for such purposes.
Adverting the idea of what is nigthcore and what is not is the only way to win the fight of defining nightcore. Because now nightcore are widely considered sped-up and pitched-up.
Prescriptively (what we think is ideal & what is in dictionary), a Nightcore song has to be a techno/trance/dance song as the original artist does.
Descriptively (how the word is actually used by the people), a Nightcore song is any song sped-up and pitched-up.
Prescriptive usually lose if not always as it lives in dictionaries only. But we don't have a dictionary or an entry of nightcore so the definition is up the people which is sped-up and pitch-up. We have to make one our own if we want to turn the tide.
If you think it is fine for you not to have the true nightcore definition as long as the bad one dont mess with you.
It is selfish.
It is unfair for all people who have never heard of or listen to nightcore, their experience will be ruined by the overwhelming number of pseudo nightcore music, turn away, thinking nightcore is merely speeding up random songs and will never type nightcore in search bar ever again.
And, as one day, on day the last nightcore maker is gone, the world would only remember nightcore as the name of sped-up and pitch-up. Or don't even remember it if there is no record to be found.
Last edited by HKO2006 on December 26th, 2013, 3:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
Welcome to Nightcore Universe! Enjoy your stay as much as you enjoy the original Nightcore songs!
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Well, it's a fact that there are more people who like fake nightcore to the real one, so, if you start this kind of discussion in the internet, the fake nightcore people will always win. Actually, I don't even know why I'm posting it. To be honest, I don't care that much anymore. Do whatever you guys want/think it's better.
One feature of knowyourmeme is you can only edit if the OP let you join the editorship, so the meme can be absolute autocracy, as what's happening now. If this meme can make its way to first page of google result, hopefully we can turn the tide. It require much extra effort though, consider it has been few years since you let the dummies play.
Welcome to Nightcore Universe! Enjoy your stay as much as you enjoy the original Nightcore songs!
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Slax, please edit /add
the definition of Nightcore music/hardcore music
why other genres of music can't be nightcore
Or you can reply here then I add it if you are not to familiar with UI and how to edit it.
Welcome to Nightcore Universe! Enjoy your stay as much as you enjoy the original Nightcore songs!
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hko2006 wrote:Slax, please edit /add
the definition of Nightcore music/hardcore music
why other genres of music can't be nightcore
Or you can reply here then I add it if you are not to familiar with UI and how to edit it.
I'll add it as soon as possible becuase now I have some exams in sight.
Anyway I don't know if it's good or bad to teach people how to nightcore songs, just beacuse if a random guy passes by and decided to nightcore the current pop/rap hit of the moment, he will just add another fake nightcore on youtube to the thousands already there. On the other side, if you don't teach people how to do it and they're not already practical with audio softwares, they can publish some baaaad quality shit. So I don't even know if what I'm saying is right...
Raver wrote:Well, it's a fact that there are more people who like fake nightcore to the real one, so, if you start this kind of discussion in the internet, the fake nightcore people will always win.
I finished with editing the article, check out the Pre-resurface section, I think it's perfect like it is right now. I was able to play the audio in the powerpuffgirls Z video, it's still there and not muted.
Wow, it is on the first page now! Ranking 8 or 4 in terms of website ranking. Creating progress tracking for the meme. Please suggest what improvement can be done. Around 50 views each day now :D
Progession
About
Nightcore as music style 75%
Nightcore as artist 0%
Origin
Original nightcore songs and oldest to be found 10%
History
Maybe a Dam Dadi Doo sub meme? Consider so many Dam Dadi Doo AMV/MV
Better article organization 30%
Golden Age 5%
AMV/MV for each year 10%
Greatest hits for each year 0%
Little history of Maikel's channel 5%
Now
Active/good old nightcore uploaders 50%
Nightcore derivation 20%
Nightstep
Others
Fandom
nightcoreuniverse, need your help for sure
And finally our worst nightmare
Why it is not nightcore
History
spread
now
How to make a nightcore song?
links to nightcoreuniverse with a revised tutorial, emphasizing the importance of music genre
Copyright issue?
Or not?
Welcome to Nightcore Universe! Enjoy your stay as much as you enjoy the original Nightcore songs!
Useful threads/links
Wow again, found out even the Kingdom Heart AMV isn't the earliest upload, and as Nightcore said, the songs are from LimeWire, I am working on it try to get it working.'
Also forgot osu! which contain a nightcore mod speed up and add beats to EVERY song.
Welcome to Nightcore Universe! Enjoy your stay as much as you enjoy the original Nightcore songs!
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Watch4FallingRock wrote:I was just reading the KYM page. 2011 must have been a rough year for nightcore, wasn't it?
I think you might be confusing the events on Youtube with the events on the forum.
If I were to make a history of nightcore timeline, I would probably include this things:
2008-Pres - Rise of fanmade nightcore on Youtube
2008-2009 - Golden age of nightcore on Youtube
2010-Pres - Speed edits/fake nightcore starts to appear on Youtube
I think on NU, 2012 was worse than 2011, since 2012 seems to be when the brunt of the "shitstorm" came.
But that was the past, and that's all done now.
The forum seems to be doing pretty well right now. I think we should view the present peaceful state of the forum as a clean, fresh start, and look towards the future. Hopefully we can push this forum in the right direction.
I usually go by the nick of Tolle, but both OppaiSama (don't judge ^_^) and Tolle are fine.
I've just made an account on KYM and received editorship for the Nightcore page.
Currently, I'm very busy with finishing my bachelor project in English, but will probably be popping in once in a while to discuss the Nightcore page.
I'll throw in my initial two cents:
As of now, I see different areas that could need little to some improvement, but my main focus and flame is doubtlessly the definition of Nightcore. The current description "Nightcore is the glorified term to describe the style of speeding up Eurodance, Hands Up and Trance, emerged in the mid 2000s[12] on YouTube." is not decidedly wrong, but gives the wrong impression. Nightcore as a genre has the sound of sped up Trance and Hands Up/Eurodance (aren't these the same?), but is not necessarily composed of Trance and Hands Up/Eurodance as the current description suggests.
I also have some knowledge on musical terminology, so if it doesn't become too far-fetched, I would love to add some more specific defining elements of Nightcore.
I know we can't stop the movement of misunderstood Nightcore (Fuck you Nightcore Reality), but at least we can do our best to provide people with the truest possible definition and explanation.
Sorry if I went off on a rant. I'm open-minded and I think discussing shit like this is the best - if you disagree with anything I say, feel free to critique/comment.
Nightcore as a genre has the sound of sped up Trance and Hands Up/Eurodance, but is not necessarily composed of Trance and Hands Up/Eurodance as the current description suggests.
Sure, as long as your fan-made Nightcore sounds like it could have been released by the original group, regardless of which genre the song belonged to, then it is Nightcore. Finding tracks that fits that definition but not the currently listed one would be hard though.
I think that a bigger problem with the definition is that the genres (Eurodance, Hands Up, Trance) are in constant evolution. By the current definition, any Eurodance, Hands Up and Trance song can become Nightcore, regardless of whether or not they sound anything like the original Nightcore tracks. This doesn't bother me personally since I have no issue with evolving definitions, but it's a problem nonetheless.
Just as an example, could you imagine the original group releasing a sped-up version of this? (Hands Up) https://soundcloud.com/hard3eat/now-or- ... tended-mix
I just don't see it happening, it is way too hard compared to anything they did.
Trance and Hands Up/Eurodance (aren't these the same?)
Almost. Hands Up (also called Eurotrance, Commercial Trance, Dancecore and Techno at different points in time) is highly influenced by Eurodance, but it's not the same thing. Trying to explain the differences in words is hard, it's better to just listen to them both and decide yourself ^^ Also, Hands Up is still evolving (a bit), while Eurodance is more or less totally dead.
Last edited by emilemil1 on May 13th, 2015, 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
emilemil1 wrote:
Sure, as long as your fan-made Nightcore sounds like it could have been released by the original group, regardless of which genre the song belonged to, then it is Nightcore.
What you coming with here is basically your definition on Nightcore :) The problem is that this definition cannot be understood from simply that explanation. Our aim (and sorry if I'm over enthusiastic about this) should be to write a proper Nightcore definition that covers all real Nightcore, but disregards the fake stuff that come out post 2010/2011.
emilemil1 wrote:
Just as an example, could you imagine the original group releasing a sped-up version of this? (Hands Up) https://soundcloud.com/hard3eat/now-or- ... tended-mix
I just don't see it happening, it is way too hard compared to anything they did.
No, definitely not. If I hear this sped up, I would probably think "This is not Nightcore".
As a little experiment, I made a survey with "different kinds of Nightcore".
There are 10 songs that are all tagged with Nightcore on YouTube. Some of these are obviously not Nightcore, but to keep it as scientific as possible, I included them as well.
I would be really happy if you guys would listen to enough of the songs (skip around if you want) to be able to tell whether or not you think it is within the Nightcore genre. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes.
I'm doing this to be sure that we have the same idea of Nightcore and in order to not fuck things up on the KYM Nightcore page - especially for myself since I just joined in.
Please do NOT share this with anyone. I expect only people who have put themselves into the whole Nightcore-situation to answer.
OppaiSama wrote:
The problem is that this definition cannot be understood from simply that explanation. Our aim (and sorry if I'm over enthusiastic about this) should be to write a proper Nightcore definition that covers all real Nightcore, but disregards the fake stuff that come out post 2010/2011.
I agree with this. The problem however lies within the larger channels confusing newcomers to the genre and the lack of genre knowledge in the first place. A lot of people who show up here genuinely think what they are uploading is "real nightcore", and they don't bother reading the countless threads and announcements posted telling them otherwise. Because let's face it, hardly anyone actually reads anything. Two years as a moderator on another forum board has taught me that.
OppaiSama wrote:
I would be really happy if you guys would listen to enough of the songs (skip around if you want) to be able to tell whether or not you think it is within the Nightcore genre.
Vitacx97 wrote:
I agree with this. The problem however lies within the larger channels confusing newcomers to the genre and the lack of genre knowledge in the first place. A lot of people who show up here genuinely think what they are uploading is "real nightcore", and they don't bother reading the countless threads and announcements posted telling them otherwise. Because let's face it, hardly anyone actually reads anything. Two years as a moderator on another forum board has taught me that.
Yeah, I guess you're right. In that case, our biggest goal is to be sure that anyone who knows the "truth", and wants to debate with those people, can reference the KYM Nightcore, win arguments and spread the word :)
Vitacx97 wrote:Sure, no problem. I just filled it out.
The problem with winning an argument about what words mean is that it depends entirely on who you ask, and it's usually the majority that decides what the "truth" is. We can show all the history proofs we want, but if 97% of the world have come to the agreement that Nightcore = Sped-up music, then that will be what the word means. We can't really use its past definition as an argument for what it should mean today.
Similar things happens all the time, for example to words like "Gay". Most people read that word and thinks "Homosexual", but in the past it simply meant "Happy". Does that mean that using the word Gay when you mean Homosexual is wrong in any way because it's not always been that way? And can we blame someone for not choosing to use the old definition when presented with both alternatives, when everyone around them is using the new definition?
emilemil1 wrote:Similar things happens all the time, for example to words like "Gay". Most people read that word and thinks "Homosexual", but in the past it simply meant "Happy". Does that mean that using the word Gay when you mean Homosexual is wrong in any way because it's not always been that way? And can we blame someone for not choosing to use the old definition when presented with both alternatives, when everyone around them is using the new definition?
Did the survey :)
I see what you mean, BUT I'm happy you use that example: a good chunk of people are aware of the fact that "gay" also means happy (in the same way that people have started calling others "a bundle of sticks" which is the old definition of "faggot" - excuse the language).
With that said, you are absolutely right that the majority dictates the USAGE of the word, but the definition should stay the same, much in the same way that we wouldn't change the abbreviation "would've" to "would of" just because many people started writing that.
And thanks for answering the survey :)
Here's the current status for the people interested:
4 entries, only disagreements appear in nr. 1 and 10.
__________________________
Updated the KYM Nightcore page today, did the following (until "Dance MV"):
Cleaned up some spelling and rephrased to avoid repetition.
Changed all instances of "Nightcore" to be capitalized for consistency - this is debatable as it depends on whether we consider Nightcore a genre or phenomenon.
Removed link from second instance of Maikel631 (usually, hyper-links are only used on the first instance - but KYM could have different style, but I can't check this anywhere, so I'll have to do that at next given opportunity).
I used the Gay example because it's probably the most common one, which is also why a lot of people know about it ^^ The Noob/Newb confusion is probably closer to my heart, since I was there when the transition happened. I've just come to accept that change now.
In the end it's irrelevant what the definition is or has been, what matters is how a word is used at present, whether it's in multiple ways or in a single way. Usage dictates everything in this case, since words and their meanings in the eyes of the population depends solely on usage, not on what's stated in dictionaries.
much in the same way that we wouldn't change the abbreviation "would've" to "would of" just because many people started writing that.
I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up happening, seeing how common it's getting.
OppaiSama wrote:4 entries, only disagreements appear in nr. 1 and 10.
They are from me, both answers are well.., explained below.
The 'is this Nightcore' question always bothers me when I am creating nightcore playlists for channels which do not have one yet. It bothered me when I was deciding whether to include some songs in the Nightcore channel in DI Radio. It is good to see you raise this issue, I have always been waiting/looking for one would raise it, the last one was Nightcore Raver (HFU Nightcore, who deleted his NU account some time ago).
I consider the following when determining whether a song is nightcore:
BPM
Pitch of the vocal
Sped up %
Amount of vocals
Amount of lyrics
Amount of synth riff
Type of synth riff/other effects
Type of kicks
genre
or just the question of does it sound like the original Nightcore songs
__________________________
Had problem playing YouTube video so some songs I just found the originals.
survey answers below, don't see if you haven't done it yet
1. Nightcore - Listen to your heart - YouTube, Jun 27, 2009 - Uploaded by Ralphie Cee
Pitch of the vocal <- not enough
Sped up % <- seems not enough too (also made the pitch not high)
2. Nightcore - I See The Light - YouTube, Apr 10, 2014 - Uploaded by xXMeInSuRaXx
The vocal is kind of strange compared to the original / other see the light but nvm.
3. Hollywood Undead - Undead no
4. Parralox - Electricity, Synth-pop, no
5. Xandria - Sisters of the Light, symphonic metal, gothic, gothic metal, no
6. Stan SB - Dead (Original Mix), Drum & Bass, no
7. Angel of Darkness, funny it is the most viewed nightcore song now
8. angel with :), no
9. Krewella - Feel Me, Progressive House, House, Electro, Dubstep, Drum n Bass, no
10. Azuro - Ti Amo (Video Edit) [feat. Elly], Nightcore III ~ Ti Amo ! - YouTube, Oct 16, 2011 - Uploaded by Baf | Top of The coRe
I tend to support this channel so allow me to replace the video with this one
BPM 160, the minimal BPM for hardcore
Type of synth riff/other effects, no synth but flute
Type of kicks, house kicks
so no (answered well in survey)
I like your writing 'Lanta111/ made his appearance on YouTube' :D
In 2011, the next big Nightcore uploader <-the 'big' is kind of subjective to me, and a total of 45 Nightcore songs isn't big, just it has a lot of views so I added it. Was it a big channel back in 2011? I didn't about nightcore till end of 2013.
@OppaiSama, you should make a thread in The Red Carpet when you have time. A copy of your Editorship Request for Nightcore should do plus where you live/time zone.
__________________________
OppaiSama wrote:With that said, you are absolutely right that the majority dictates the USAGE of the word, but the definition should stay the same, much in the same way that we wouldn't change the abbreviation "would've" to "would of" just because many people started writing that.
1. Nightcore - Listen to your heart - YouTube, Jun 27, 2009 - Uploaded by Ralphie Cee
Pitch of the vocal <- not enough
Sped up % <- seems not enough too (also made the pitch not high)
I was slightly surprised to see someone disagree with that one :p
BPM count is 166~167.
The original is 73.
That's over 2X the speed :)
I can agree with the pitch, though, that it's not as high as I would usually consider in Nightcore. That having been said, I think of it more as an author's expression and would still call it Nightcore. :)
hko2006 wrote:
10. Azuro - Ti Amo (Video Edit) [feat. Elly], Nightcore III ~ Ti Amo ! - YouTube, Oct 16, 2011 - Uploaded by Baf | Top of The coRe
I tend to support this channel so allow me to replace the video with this one
BPM 160, the minimal BPM for hardcore
Type of synth riff/other effects, no synth but flute
Type of kicks, house kicks
so no (answered well in survey)[/spoiler]
I agree with your decision on this one that it is not Nightcore. I would, however, not argue much if someone said it was because, like you said, it has a lot of the elements required.
I counter a BPM of 155.
Agreed. I remember trying to rewrite this, as it already said something that sounded subjective but in a slightly "clumsy" manner. Simply writing "has a count" should do.
hko2006 wrote:
In 2011, the next big Nightcore uploader <-the 'big' is kind of subjective to me, and a total of 45 Nightcore songs isn't big, just it has a lot of views so I added it. Was it a big channel back in 2011? I didn't about nightcore till end of 2013.
Ahh, I misunderstood what was already written (which means it wasn't clear enough :D). I feel like it's okay to say "big" though, if it's significant enough to mention. Big is more a way of saying "this is why we are telling you" than "So many videos, omg".
hko2006 wrote:
@OppaiSama, you should make a thread in The Red Carpet when you have time. A copy of your Editorship Request for Nightcore should do plus where you live/time zone.
I'll see if I have time :)
hko2006 wrote:Kind of like Prescriptive vs Descriptive.
I'd like to talk more about that later - I have to go now so I won't have time to chat about it.
I'll get back to ya soon.
1. Nightcore - Listen to your heart - YouTube, Jun 27, 2009 - Uploaded by Ralphie Cee
Pitch of the vocal <- not enough
Sped up % <- seems not enough too (also made the pitch not high)
I was slightly surprised to see someone disagree with that one :p
BPM count is 166~167.
The original is 73.
That's over 2X the speed :)
I can agree with the pitch, though, that it's not as high as I would usually consider in Nightcore. That having been said, I think of it more as an author's expression and would still call it Nightcore. :)
hko2006 wrote:
10. Azuro - Ti Amo (Video Edit) [feat. Elly], Nightcore III ~ Ti Amo ! - YouTube, Oct 16, 2011 - Uploaded by Baf | Top of The coRe
I tend to support this channel so allow me to replace the video with this one
BPM 160, the minimal BPM for hardcore
Type of synth riff/other effects, no synth but flute
Type of kicks, house kicks
so no (answered well in survey)[/spoiler]
I agree with your decision on this one that it is not Nightcore. I would, however, not argue much if someone said it was because, like you said, it has a lot of the elements required.
I counter a BPM of 155.
Agreed. I remember trying to rewrite this, as it already said something that sounded subjective but in a slightly "clumsy" manner. Simply writing "has a count" should do.
hko2006 wrote:
In 2011, the next big Nightcore uploader <-the 'big' is kind of subjective to me, and a total of 45 Nightcore songs isn't big, just it has a lot of views so I added it. Was it a big channel back in 2011? I didn't about nightcore till end of 2013.
Ahh, I misunderstood what was already written (which means it wasn't clear enough :D). I feel like it's okay to say "big" though, if it's significant enough to mention. Big is more a way of saying "this is why we are telling you" than "So many videos, omg".
hko2006 wrote:
@OppaiSama, you should make a thread in The Red Carpet when you have time. A copy of your Editorship Request for Nightcore should do plus where you live/time zone.
I'll see if I have time :)
hko2006 wrote:Kind of like Prescriptive vs Descriptive.
I'd like to talk more about that later - I have to go now so I won't have time to chat about it.
I'll get back to ya soon.
You have successfully messed the layout of NU! lol
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I only glanced at the tracks in the survey, not more than 5-10 seconds each, and on second glance I can definitely agree that Ti Amo is too slow. I rated entirely based on the genre/sound of the song though, since that seemed to be the purpose of the survey, not to be anal about setting the right tempo. My first impression was that it seemed overall eurodance-ish, with the exception of the main flute part, which I didn't get to hear while skimming through ^^
That's why I also said yes for Listen To Your Heart. Don't want to mess up the statistics because of nitpicking.
OppaiSama wrote:I was slightly surprised to see someone disagree with that one :p
BPM count is 166~167.
The original is 73.
That's over 2X the speed :)
I can agree with the pitch, though, that it's not as high as I would usually consider in Nightcore. That having been said, I think of it more as an author's expression and would still call it Nightcore. :)
I have Virtual DJ and MixMeister BPM Analyzer to see the BPM and both have problem showing BPM of certain tracks ie if the BPM is too small like 73 <- it is actually half of the correct BPM so it should be 146. And 146 to 166 is 13.7%, a lot smaller than the 'standard' 25% used by Nightcore.
73 BPM would be like __________D.H.T. feat. Edmée - Listen to Your Heart (Furious F. EZ Radio Edit)
,
The inspiration of Nightcore is the pitched vocals in Scooter - Nessaja and Ramp! (The Logical Song)
(^they were in the meme but got deleted)
Nightcore liked it and wanted to make some themselves so they did so by speeding up songs so one of the main point of Nightcore is kind of the pitched vocal and it can be clearly heard that it is artificially pitched but sang in high pitch.
(^also got deleted)
Speaking of not speeding up enough
Nightcore II: Pretty Rave Girl is from 175 BPM to 189.2 BPM (sped up 8%)
When I was remaking Nightcore - Drive Me Crazy, I first thought it was sped up 25% as usual, so I listened my 25% version for a long time and got used to it, until I finish making the video, I found that my video is 10s longer than the original. So I used VDJ to check the sped up %, 31%! I quickly remake one. As a nitpick person I also had hard time picking which to upload when I have two version of the same song, sped up 25% the 'standard' and the 31% the original uploader used. At the end, I picked the 31% one for it has a higher pitch and it is used by original uploader.
But until now I still can't tell which is better. I like the slower vocal in 25% more though. One thing I like nightcore is I like faster vocal but not too fast.
OppaiSama wrote:
hko2006 wrote:
10. Azuro - Ti Amo (Video Edit) [feat. Elly], Nightcore III ~ Ti Amo ! - YouTube, Oct 16, 2011 - Uploaded by Baf | Top of The coRe
I tend to support this channel so allow me to replace the video with this one
BPM 160, the minimal BPM for hardcore
Type of synth riff/other effects, no synth but flute
Type of kicks, house kicks
so no (answered well in survey)
I agree with your decision on this one that it is not Nightcore. I would, however, not argue much if someone said it was because, like you said, it has a lot of the elements required.
I counter a BPM of 155.
If a part of a song is changed then it would sound like nightcore, I would be rather ok to accept it. eg house kicks are replaced with trance/hands up kicks. I have this idea in mind when I wrote the genres listed in the updated nightcore tutorial. http://nightcoreuniverse.net/viewtopic. ... 313#p26313
OppaiSama wrote:Ahh, I misunderstood what was already written (which means it wasn't clear enough :D). I feel like it's okay to say "big" though, if it's significant enough to mention. Big is more a way of saying "this is why we are telling you" than "So many videos, omg".
The problem is I don't know if it got famous in 2011 or after 2012/2013/2014, if it is the later one, the channel would be rather irrelevant to nightcore in 2011.
Turn out the channel got famous in mid/late 2012, so not really had too much to do with 2011.
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