god?....

OsiumMaster · Post by **OsiumMaster** » June 17th, 2010, 3:48 am

i've heard about everything about evolution, though it soes not make very much sense, i'm religious(muslim)(didn't expect that did you?)
anyhow, conservationists are always made fun of becuase it's said they have no arguments.
i'd like to show some then. i included a link here of a well thought person. its the big debate: does god exist or not? you should probably only have to watch the first half an hour, thats the argument of creationists. seen by the fact that you've already heard the evolution side.
watch it if you're interested, might get you thinking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Hr1_LB3Io

(yes we have good arguments, not like "he just exist" thats just not an argument)

main idea is that nothing can't come out of nothing, which means there must be a higer power.
i don't see god responsible for all the evil, i think he just made mankind, gave them a religion and then stopped taking action himself.
some say :"what god would allow such evil?" well, i think you missed the "heaven or hell" part of religion. :)
strange thing is that evolution and creationism don't deny eachother as said. when evolutionists say species evolved, maybe god just put down another one, like when a mother gives birth, though it's said god made a baby. evolution has actually not much to do with the existance of a god i think, for that you should get to the big bang theory (is there actually anyone who believes that? everyone i know including atheïsts think isn't true at all, because it can easily be taken down by the argument:"where did those gasses come from?, then where did that come from etc." the whole god idea is that he was always there. actually, if you believe in the big bang theory, how come we are at this time right now? if time was infinite then there should always be a "before" which means that it'd be impossible to reach the present, right?
i think i know why people don't believe, it'd probably be because they don't want to obey the rules of a higher power.
like people who believe in mediums, they just force themselves to believe it, so they can be happy with the thought their relatives are okay. and won't miss them.
what i really hate is that atheists say that they don't force their religion on everyone i mean
COME ON, YOU TEACH IT ON SCHOOLS, SAYING THAT IT IS PROVEN WHILST ITS NOT.(just watch the vid if you don't believe me)
furthermore, i don't really care if you're an atheist or not, atheists are nice people after all (most of them)

@redstar: wow.... you really didn't see the link did you? watch it and then bring it on with your arguments...

Post by **Black Cat** » June 17th, 2010, 8:16 am

Hehe yes, that was a little unsuspected x3
Can't say I belive in god myself, I do not see how he can either but I do not force other to belive the same as me and I respect others who belive in him.
It was quite a long debate, so didn't see it all, just pieces tho it was quite interesting.

Seen and talked about god with some people and I must say, it can get you thinking sometimes.
I'm not the kind of person that goes "He doesn't exist, end of story", I can argue/talk about it and it can make me think but it wont make me belive otherwise. I do know that you can have good arguments and it has made me think a little :P

pringels · Post by **pringels** » June 17th, 2010, 9:41 am

Oh no we're going to need a debate form now cuz its on.jk
I do like a friendly debate every now and then but its got to be mature and to stay on subject. Some people like to jump around.
Philosophy should be conducted in small groups and the aim
of human life is to know thi self. Think for your self and question authority. PS anyone hear of OBE (Out of Body Experience)

jordesu · Post by **jordesu** » June 17th, 2010, 11:21 am

^ Yeah, I've read about OBE's.

Since as this is all religious and stuff, I'll be a "little" more mature.
but yeah... if you expect me to watch 2 hours of that, you can forget it :3
I'll just say my religious views anyway.

I do agree with Charles Darwins theory of evolution, and it makes perfect sense.
Yet, I cannot help but think there is some sort of a big man/woman/thing upstairs.

Having a god would half-explain what happens after death
Do we come back as another baby/animal but lose all our memory?
or do we go to heaven (in some instances: hell)
To do this, some sort of miracle or magic or whatever must happen?

Brief:
Charles Darwin is right, but theres still a god up there.

pringels · Post by **pringels** » June 17th, 2010, 2:08 pm

Have you ever had one. I had 1 when i was in jail and it was sooo vivid.
I thought one night i walked out of the county jail and the next thing i know is im over my apartment and i see my dad asleep in a chair and i ask him if im sleeping and he shaks his head up and down as if to say yes. And i couldn't accept that. Then wake up back in bunk... back in jail. I swear to this day i thought i walked out those doors and i was home. Very surreal.

RaveComing · Post by **RaveComing** » June 17th, 2010, 2:17 pm

pringels · Post by **pringels** » June 17th, 2010, 2:42 pm

If you love those who only love you then why should you clame any credit. *** Just a figure of speech not directed to anyone***

GuitarG20 · Post by **GuitarG20** » June 17th, 2010, 9:03 pm

well I'm catholic, so I have an interesting view on what's up with the whole evolution vs. creationism thing. Here's what Catholics believe in a nutshell.

According to the Second Vatican Council (Vatican II) Catholics can believe in either the evolutionist theory or the creationalist theory, based on one important distinction that the soul was not evolved, and is instead divinely created by God.

RedStar · Post by **RedStar** » June 17th, 2010, 10:38 pm

I have had too many debates about faith to get into this one as well...

Depending on the level of discussion, I'll be your 'SPOILER':

This will probably end in something like:

'some religious person' shouting:
(something close to:) its true anyway!

Furthermore:
Yes I am an Atheïst. Which pretty much equals the fact that I believe Evolution. (just because you dont immidiately notice something doesnt mean it isnt true... lol which is funny & ironic btw.. because... you know... God etc...)
I like to be in control of my own life, instead of letting a flying spaghetti monster living it for me...

I dont care if others do believe, just leave me alone, Just let me be and I will let you be, that is what we call a certain form of interaction.

@ RC, I love that pic, I read it a 1000 times
Btw, there no in no such way, any more direct proof of 'god' than there is of Evolution (knowing both sides of the story helps, I didnt pick Atheïsm just like that, I actually thought it through)

... I have made a few Youtube remarks of my own...and pretty much hardcore incinerating any form or religion.

Before I unleash my full arsenal of speeches and proof against religion:

Didnt we agree NOT to have this kind of threat on NU? Thx for considering.

RaveComing · Post by **RaveComing** » June 17th, 2010, 10:47 pm

RedStar wrote: Didn't we agree NOT to have this kind of threat on NU? Tnx for considering.

1. I do think you meant THREAD
2. It's against the rule to BASH on a religion/that sort of thing, on the forum
3. Since it IS a sensible subject, I will make sure rules are enforced here more than anywhere else.
4. Remember Red Star, that the idea isn't to destroy one's point of view about his religion, but to express our opinion considering God.

I for one, think I made it clear I do not believe in one since he'd obviously be ditching his job, which would be a grand waste after using so much of his/her/its energy to create the world and oversee its development.

RedStar · Post by **RedStar** » June 17th, 2010, 10:50 pm

Yes sorry, I did make a type-o there, I did mean thread...

I am interested where this discussion will be heading since we have a forum filled with (so far) Atheïsts

I'll just sit back and enjoy the show from here on

PS:
Like I said I'll shut up. But still:
I learned to bash ppl's statements during a debate... which, I think, is the purpose of a debate... as you understand... the guidelines of this particular thread arent cohesive... otherwise, there isnt a debate... just random remarks

Phone · Post by **Phone** » June 18th, 2010, 12:16 am

I have a strong belief in G-d. Along with a strong belief in the expression, "Everything happens for a reason."
I also believe that disease, like cancer and whatnot, is on earth to control population, but us humans keep making cures and treatments which just creates more diseases.
I think where I am stuck is what religion I follow. I'm trapped between Catholicism and Judaism. D: So I decided to leave that until I'm responsible enough to decide.

Another thing: I personally don't give a crap what G-d people worship, as long as they believe in a higher power I am happy. I know there are so many atheists out there, but really, I just don't get you guys. But everyone has their own opinions and I don't start fights over things like this.

pringels · Post by **pringels** » June 18th, 2010, 10:21 am

***Just my opinion***

As a buddhist i will say yes... i do believe in god.
And my debate is this... if there is no god where would this theory come from during such ancient times, shooting stars, aliens, cosmetic debree. **Open for opinions**

RaveComing · Post by **RaveComing** » June 19th, 2010, 11:22 am

Imagine you're the leader of a great ancient country (let's take Ancient Egypt)

So, you,re the Pharaoh and, as such, you can make what you want. However, since you're "only" a Pharaoh, peeps still think you can be wrong/make mistake and thus start rebellion (which might put an end to your reign, if not life)

So, you brew this theory of a superior being and, being the Pharaoh, the people listens to you for the most part. After a few years of hammering this idea into your mind, many will come to believe it, and thus think your reign is god-given, you therefore make NO mistake and your rule CANNOT be contested.

Think this couldn't be true? Not wanting to open a political debate, remember how ex-Prez G.W. Bush made the American people believe in his war? He said "Talibans did 9/11" over a thousand times. Then, when the peeps believed it, he said "Talibans got nuclear weaponry in Afghanistan" over a thousand times.

OsiumMaster · Post by **OsiumMaster** » June 19th, 2010, 5:35 pm

Redstar, you haven't seen any arguments from creationists, yet you are so full of yourself.
That as exactly the fault the followers of evolution make. They are so sure, that they call something not yet proven, to be true.
They are so sure of something that makes just a bit of sense. And if they have a discussion with one of our learned, they are to lose.
Because what an atheist says, is that something has to be seen to be true, yet do they believe in a magician's magic to be true, even though they don't know how he did his trick? thats kind of hypocrysism right?
Maybe, and just maybe, you should actually click that link and listen to that speaker, for only 20 minutes, or cannot you miss 20 minutes of your life to discover the truth? All i thought our arguments were "till i was 12 was also that he "just existed" but i have learned much more since that time, now i know that we can think in our minds, and prove that which has not yet been seen, just like the theory of travelling back in time has been proven without ever been accomplished.
also RC, please, do not let him hold himself in, i would like to know every argument he has against us, so i can wipe those out, and i'll see what he has to say then.
I do think everyone on this forum has a certain level of believe in a god, because tell me, if you were on a sinking ship E.G. titanic,the ship had almost sunk and there is nothing you can do to save your own life anymore, what would you do? i think everyone here would pray for an unknown higher might to save him even though they might say such don't exist.
And tell me, what forum with a philosophy section doesn't have a discussion about god in it?
ofcourse this isn't even close to an argument of proving god, thats why i'd like you to watch that vid, and tell me what you thought of it.

If you did, please respond and tell me what you thought of it.
Good luck on your counterarguments.

RaveComing · Post by **RaveComing** » June 19th, 2010, 6:18 pm

OsiumMaster wrote: Because what an atheist says, is that something has to be seen to be true, yet do they believe in a magician's magic to be true, even though they don't know how he did his trick? thats kind of hypocrysism right?

OsiumMaster wrote: also RC, please, do not let him hold himself in, i would like to know every argument he has against us

From first quote, I see you are an atheist

From second quote, I see you believe I'm also an atheist. Well, I'm agnostic atheist, so I'm not 100% on your side

Also, when you talk about a magician's magic, please remember how atheist view the birth of the world : At first, there was nothing, then nothing exploded and became everything.

I actually have a theory on how the Big-Bang could be true though, but it's ass-long to write, so I won't write it unless someone is interested in hearing it.

pringels · Post by **pringels** » June 24th, 2010, 11:18 pm

awww how about a lil fath my bros and hoes. lol
dont get me rong lady's i got mad respect for most girls.

For me fath is like a gun. It's better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it. It's not like it cost anything. **just my opinion**
the vid was very intriguing.

RedStar · Post by **RedStar** » June 26th, 2010, 5:08 am

RedStar, someone complained about the content of this post and due to this it must be deleted. If who that someone is matters to you, it's Maikel and he hasn't participated in this 'debate' as of yet. He does not want to be bothered about this.
Since I'm in no right to keep charge of the Philosophy section, I cannot give you a warning. But please be careful of what you say.

~ Pikachu Kirby

EDIT: RaveComing has found your post worthy of a warning.

RedStar · Post by **RedStar** » June 27th, 2010, 6:33 am

You know...
Even though I understand what the problem is... I hope, that you in turn can understand that the first part of the post was completely sensible and well supported by arguments...
and if you would have taken the courtesy of just reading it you'd have noticed that only the second part might have been a bit over the top... So I ask you kindly to do that now before making rash decisions.

I have adjusted the post so it is now PG-13... (Rob Schneider) lawl

"That as exactly the fault the followers of god make. They are so sure, that they call something not yet proven, to be true."

(great Irony works for God aswell)

upon reading, you will disagree (you always will) that is why this is fun :D

The truth is that without man, there is no God... what I mean with that, is that some people just need a little confidence, that is all.
The thought of God, is in yourself, and the wonders of that, is that you can choose to believe in him, or in yourself to give you strength.
I choose the latter, which has helped me a great deal further than just 'hoping' for stuff to happen....
what anybody else chooses, is upto them, even though it is sometimes enjoyable (for me) to watch.

To get really deep into the philosophy of this, and to look closely at what has been said, you can conclude that God (even though "I" dont believe in such thing) and evolution do not nessecarily interfere with each other and can, infact, co-exist.
There are only a few questions remaining on the table of science to answer:
We only have theories about that happened to cause the Big Bang
We dont know how things can have mass (Higgs particle - Still looking for it)
We dont understand Dark Matter & NRG
and possibly more...

But the fact is... 500 years ago, we thought the earth to be flat, we thought the lightning to be punishment from god... we never could have imagined diseases to be something like a germ... But today, we do know the answers to that. Thanks to great men of science, who sailed around the world, dared themselves out in the open during thunderstorms and studied specimens through microscopes.

Anyways, the fun with books of religion is that it is one big circle...
you see, it goes alot like this:

1 - This line says that line 2 is true
2 - This line says that line 1 is true

1 - In the bible (or any book of faith for that matter) is written that God exists
2 - God says the "book of faith" is the truth

I bet you can see the logic in that...

As for the Titanic... I can only go hardcore on your ass...
I believe ALOT of ppl prayed their asses off about 65 years ago... about 6.000.000 of 'm... that is just one side of the story...

An other example of horrible proportions: The genocide in Turkey (1915) on the Armenians which they btw still deny... (why do you think they arent in the EU yet, well that is one of the reasons),

For me... that makes me sick... and if there was a God, he'd have helped those people... I would have.

As far as that magic goes...
I do magic myself: SPOILER ALERT,
its always a very simpel trick... Why? Because my hands are quicker than your eyes...

----

One of the wonders of science is that it seeks out the most logic conclusion AFTER it has found the fact/results...
Not the other way around.

I'd say I made a pretty polite post, if Pikachu and Rave somehow disagree with this particular post in what ever way, I will promise I will abstain from posting and even watching this thread.

Post by **Kirby** » June 27th, 2010, 11:24 am

RedStar wrote:You know...
Even though I understand what the problem is... I hope, that you in turn can understand that the first part of the post was completely sensible and well supported by arguments...
and if you would have taken the courtesy of just reading it you'd have noticed that only the second part might have been a bit over the top... So I ask you kindly to do that now before making rash decisions.

Not my fault. If someone complains it will have to be done. At a glance it didn't seem acceptable to me as well. RaveComing came later and gave you a warning for it.
That 'second part' accounted for a large majority of the post, so don't put it on us for deleting everything. And us equals three people.

Phone · Post by **Phone** » June 27th, 2010, 6:47 pm

People who actually take time out of their day to bash a religion might as well be in the same category they consider the people of that religion.

Post by **Kirby** » June 27th, 2010, 7:00 pm

Phone wrote:People who actually take time out of their day to bash a religion might as well be in the same category they consider the people of that religion.

This is why I don't see the Philosophy section in a good light right now. It's not about what RedStar did but the likelihood of bashing is way too high, not to mention it (this section) doesn't exactly fit the themes of this forum well.

But anyways, back on topic.

RedStar · Post by **RedStar** » June 27th, 2010, 9:53 pm

It's not about what RedStar did but the likelihood of bashing is way too high, not to mention it (this section) doesn't exactly fit the themes of this forum well.

I Quote that For Truth.

This kind of philosophy is btw a bit over the top for anyone who only just, or hasnt graduated yet all. (yes I am in that group aswell)

Therefore I will here by never open this topic again from now on, saves alot of trouble....

This stuff is like discussing politics... it will never work out... one person had a good education and therefore a good job... the other has the complete opposite...

Have fun you all.

PS:
Pikachu, if you have the power to delete posts, you have every right to use it, but when you tell me that you didnt read my post and just glanced at it... deleting it is rash, I always like to see how 'bad' things are for myself. btw editing a few links even takes less efford than just deleting a whole post the way you did it....

Post by **Kirby** » June 27th, 2010, 10:35 pm

RedStar wrote:PS:
Pikachu, if you have the power to delete posts, you have every right to use it, but when you tell me that you didnt read my post and just glanced at it... deleting it is rash, I always like to see how 'bad' things are for myself. btw editing a few links even takes less efford than just deleting a whole post the way you did it....

- my interest in the Philosophy section is next to none, all I did was answer to a complaint. My opinion wasn't a strong influence at all and shouldn't be focused upon.
- I archived your original post and would have restored it if I got a word from RaveComing to do so (he's pretty much head-honcho of this section)
- WHY do you expect us to be so intricate when the majority of your post (probably 85%?) was found to be VERY offending
- I might as well had taken Maikel's word for it because he thought this was appropriate. He would have done it himself if he were not leaving to eat.

No one's telling you you can't post, RedStar. If I recall correctly you were only asked to step aside if you 'could not handle yourself'. I guess that was left up to you to decide.

pringels · Post by **pringels** » June 30th, 2010, 4:50 am

come on ppl. this is a philosophy thread didn't get all butt hurt over what some people say. just agree to.. disagree. be a little mature about this. if you dont like what they say don't reply to that individual.
and if you really have a problem with someone let them know.
and dont use a middle man to talk for you. this is the internet it should be somewhat expected.

I swear.. like lil kids. err he offended me and bashted me err i cant stik up for my self errrr.

May we continue with the thread good people of the Nightcore Universe?

kirbyedit: I don't really understand what you mean by this. >.> Oh well.

RaveComing · Post by **RaveComing** » June 30th, 2010, 12:12 pm

Next person who continue talking about the last issue (and/or something related to it) will be banned for 2 weeks.

Now, please continue on the original topic :)

Wolfbrother0 · Post by **Wolfbrother0** » June 30th, 2010, 1:28 pm

This is the way I see things, first there is a huge differnce beween macro and micro evloution (micro being small changes overt thaosnads of year) Micro is what I go for, it is rasonal and there is actule proof, I,m geting to my point. I also belive that God Created everything. The way I see things is That god is hope, law, and all that is ture, So lets say there is no God then no hope, for what hope is there for something better when it is just us weak pittiful humans, no divine law no right and wrong, so why bother following mortal laws.

RobLucci · Post by **RobLucci** » May 13th, 2011, 10:20 am

this post might be old and i m not member yet. but ill still post my "new" personal belief about God. ever since i see the falsity of religions concept of God. i abandon my own religion and search the truth on my own and i believe that science can really give me the truth. and i was convinced that there's really no God fellow out there. the science says that there's no God, no soul, that everything is an accident. but i wasn't convinced because i m aware of my self and my existence. the more i m aware the more i doubt that i have beginning, that i m just an accident. just being aware of my self and somethings telling inside me that i was eternal... so i research about self and consciousness and i found a video in youtube discussing about self,consciousness,God by John Hegalin

he explains god,self, and consciousness through science. after i watch i try to look on everything and i notice something. everything is "chained". the other cannot exist without other in fact everything is interdependent on each other. surely there's an intelligence that govern behind this harmony. i m intelligent surely the universe must be intelligent too. and i m thinking.. what if the the intelligence that governs the harmony and the law of physics is the God itself? the christian cannot accept this fact because they believe in perfect God. the world is evolving it is prof enough that world is imperfect and still evolving for eternity. but God cannot create imperfect world. this is why popes condemns Charles Darwin because this man is bringing up an idea that will prove that God is imperfect. and i m thinking maybe the evolution itself is the prof enough that there is a God. because evolution means life. perfection is dead. so basically God is basically imperfect forever. other thing that really clears me is the following: Nightcore,Trance,anime,humor,miku hatsune they telling me that nothing is a accident,that we have soul,that where eternal, that everything exist on purpose. i can say god is everywhere his presence is like an absence.

OsiumMaster · Post by **OsiumMaster** » August 3rd, 2011, 8:39 pm

What if the the intelligence that governs the harmony and the law of physics is the God itself? the christian cannot accept this fact because they believe in perfect God.

The main idea is that if there was a before before everything, it would be impossible to reach the present. scientists deny the laws of nature and everything that they stand for, rather than accepting that there must have been a supernatural power.
If god was physics law then he/she himself would have to step ouside of his/her own boundaries in order to exist.

but God cannot create imperfect world.

I believe the bible said something like: 'god can do anything' , creating an imperfect world would probably be one of those things.

@Redstar: You probably didn't get what i meant by the example of the 'magician', I meant to say that you know that he isn't able to do magic, while you have in fact seen him do something that looks like it. That means that the mind has a superior conclusion than the vision. i gave this example, because for philosophy, you need to use the mind instead of the eyes.

@RC iI you have the slightest idea how something can come out of nothing, I'd really love to hear it. Could get me rich:DDDDD

Execrated · Post by **Execrated** » September 12th, 2012, 11:55 pm

I ran across one particular version that really stumped me.
I dont remember who's proof of god this is, i think it was Descartes, but the simplified version goes something thus-ish

god?....

god?....

Re: god?....

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Re: god?....

Re: god?....

Re: god?....

Re: god?....

Re: god?....

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